1984年9月6日美国国务院经由两条渠道获悉昨天中共中央总书记胡耀邦与日本《读卖新闻》社社长小林与三次会谈时的内容，一方面日本驻北京大使馆向美国驻北京大使馆提供了会谈详细记录，另一方面美国驻东京大使馆将日本报纸的报道摘抄下来。
胡耀邦说，朝鲜半岛局势虽有缓解，但没有取得大的进展。中共国外交部私下对日本人说很怀疑朝鲜会不会接受韩国的体育对话提议。在纽约即将召开的联合国大会期间，中共国外长吴学谦将同苏联外长葛罗米柯进行会晤，虽然会谈不会有重大结果，但预期中苏1985年贸易额会达到40到50亿瑞士法郎。
关于内政问题，胡耀邦说中共中央全会将于十月份举行，议题主要是经济改革而非人事变动，不过秋季时随着干部年轻化政策的推进会有一些部委和省份的官员会挪位。十月的中共中央全会上将决定何时举办“全国大会”。美国驻华使馆评价到：日本人并不确定如何理解这个词，猜测可能是指一次特别党代会，因为现在还没有到召开下一次例行全国代表大会的时候。（按：1984年10月20日，中共十二届三中全会通过《关于召开党的全国代表会议的决定》，决定于次年9月份召开全国代表会议）
如果达赖喇嘛想回到中国那欢迎，如果不想回来也可以，总之不着急。胡耀邦说已经见过达赖喇嘛的代表，并对代表说如果达赖喇嘛回来只能住在北京而非西藏。达赖喇嘛回来后只能获得相应的宗教地位，而不能维持原有的统治方式，但他会被西藏历史记住。虽然原本达赖喇嘛的地位比班禅喇嘛高些，但既然他1959年后离开中国就不那么熟悉情况了，而且在第三国又做过很多不适当的事情，那么他回来后的政治地位就不会高过班禅喇嘛。
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O 061013Z SEP 84
FM AMEMBASSY BEIJING
TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 6961
SUBJECT: HU YAOBANG'S MEETING
WITH JAPANESE
1. (c) - ENTIRE TEXT.
2. THE JAPANESE EMBASSY HAS GIVEN US A READOUT OF GENERAL SECRETARY HU
YAOBANGS MEETING WITH JAPANESE JOURNALISTS. ACCORDING TO THE JAPANESE, HU NOTED
THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME EASING OF THE KOREAN SITUATION, BUT NO MAJOR
IMPROVEMENT, AND THE JAPANESE HAVE BEEN TOLD PRIVATELY BY THE MFA THAT CHINA
DOUBTS WHETHER THE NORTH WILL ACCEPT THE SOUTH'S LATEST SPORTS TALK PROPOSAL. HU EXPECTS NO
RESULTS FROM THE WU-GROMYKO MEETING IN NEW YORK, BUT SINO-SOVIET TRADE IN 1985
MAY REACH 4 TO 5 BILLION SWISS FRANCS. THERE IS GOOD REASON TO HOPE THAT AN
AGREEMENT ON HONG KONG WILL BE INITIALED IN SEPTEMBER.THIS WILL NOT HARM THE
INTERESTS OF THIRD COUNTRIES. HU DECLINED TO COMMENT ON THE POSTPONEMENT OF THE
HONECKER VISIT. PARTICIPATION IN THE 1988 SEOUL OLYMPICS IS NOT BEING EXAMINED
RIGHT NOW. ON INTERNAL MATTERS, THE PARTY PLENUM WILL BE HELD IN OCTOBER, AND
THE MAIN THEME WILL BE ECONOMIC REFORMS. HU REPORTEDLY SAID THAT THE PLENUM
WOULD NOT MAKE PERSONNEL CHANGES. BUT LATER IN THE FALL SOME CENTRAL AND PROVINCIAL
CHANGES WILL TAKE PLACE, AS PART OF THE "YOUTHIFICATION" POLICY. ON TIBET, CHINA WOULD WELCOME THE DALAI LAMA BACK, BUT HE
WOULD HAVE TO LIVE AND REMAIN IN BEIJING; HIS STATUS WOULD BE NO HIGHER THAN
THAT OF THE PANCHEN LAMA. END SUMMARY.
3. JAPANESE EMBOFF HAS GIVEN US A READOUT OF HU YAOBANG'S SEPTEMBER 3
MEETING WITH YOMIURI PRESIDENT KOBAYASHI, ADDING SOME DETAILS NOT COVERED IN
THE XINHUA REPORT. THE SUBSTANCE OF HU'S COMMENTS WERE AS FOLLOWS:
4. KOREA: THE MAIN ISSUE IS HOW
TO BRING ABOUT LONG-TERM STABILITY. THE
INTERESTS OF MANY COUNTRIES ARE INVOLVED, MAKING THE SITUATION COMPLICATED, SO
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION OF HOW TO BRING ABOUT LONG-TERM STABILITY. SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 1984, "THROUGH
EACH SIDE'S EFFORTS" (JINGGUO GEFANGDE NULI) THERE HAS BEEN SOME EASING OF
THE SITUATION, BUT IT IS REGRETTABLE THAT THERE HAS BEEN NO MAJOR
IMPROVEMENT. CHINA CONTINUES TO SUPPORT
KIM IL-SUNG'S PROPOSAL FOR TRIPARTITE NEGOTIATIONS AND PEACEFUL REUNIFICATION.
"IF CHINA, JAPAN, AND THE UNITED STATES MAKE EFFORTS TOGETHER TO IMPROVE
THE SITUATION ON THE KOREAN PENINSULA FROM THE SIDELINES, IT WILL SURELY BE IN
THE INTERESTS OF WORLD PEACE." (COMMENT: JAPANESE EMBOFF SAID THEY FOUND
THIS A RATHER VAGUE FORMULATION. AS AN ASIDE, HE SAID THAT THE JAPANESE DCM HAD
ON SEPTEMBER 5 MET WITH ASSISTANT MINISTER LIU SHUQING, TO INFORM THE CHINESE
THAT THE ROK WOULD BE SENDING A LETTER TO THE NORTH PROPOSING RESUMPTION OF
SPORTS TALKS. LIU HAD REPLIED THAT CONTACTS BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES WOULD BE A
"GOOD THING." NEVERTHELESS, LIU SAID, CHINA HAS SOME DOUBTS WHETHER THE
NORTH WILL ACCEPT THIS SPORTS PROPOSAL, AND FEELS THAT FOR THE TIME BEING THERE
WILL BE NO GREAT PROGRESS. THE JAPANESE WERE STRUCK BY LIU'S PESSIMISTIC TONE,
BUT NOTED THAT HU'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE EFFORTS OF BOTH SIDES WAS A SMALL PAT ON
THE BACK FOR PRESIDENT CHUN. END COMMENT.)
6. SINO-SOVIET TRADE: CHINA AND THE SOVIET UNION RECENTLY EXCHANGED
LISTS OF PRODUCTS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SELL EACH OTHER IN 1985. THE AMOUNT WHICH CHINA PROPOSED TO SELL WAS
GREATER THAN THE AMOUNT THAT THE SOVIETS PROPOSED. IF THE LIST IS COMPLETED BY BOTH SIDES,
SINO-SOVIET TRADE IN 1985 WILL REACH FOUR TO FIVE BILLION SWISS FRANCS.
7. HONG KONG: HOWE DID A
"GOOD JOB" WHEN HE VISITED IN JULY. HIS VISIT SOLVED THE DIFFICULT
ISSUES WHICH FACED BOTH SIDES AT THE TIME. AFTER HOWE'S VISIT, THE TEMPO OF THE
NEGOTIATIONS ACCELERATED. UNLESS SOME "OTHER FACTOR APPEARS" WE HAVE
GOOD REASON TO HOPE THAT BOTH SIDES WILL INITIAL AN AGREEMENT ON HONG KONG
DURING SEPTEMBER. AS FOR THIRD-COUNTRY INVESTMENTS IN HONG KONG, "WE
DECLARED MANY TIMES THAT RESTORATION OF CHINESE SOVEREIGNTY OVER HONG KONG
WOULD NOT HARM THE INTERESTS OF ANY OTHER COUNTRIES. SO YOU CAN BE REASSURED
(#) (NIMEN YAO FANG XIN)." THE SUCCESS OF
THE HONG KONG NEGOTIATIONS COULD SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE FOR SOLVING OTHER PROBLEMS
BETWEEN COUNTRIES, AND THAT MAKES IT A "GRATIFYING
MATTER" (KEXI DE SHIQING) .
8. HONECKER VISIT: THIS HAS NOT BEEN CANCELLED, IT HAS BEEN POSTPONED.
I DON'T KNOW THE REASONS, AND FROM A DIPLOMATIC POINT OF VIEW IT WOULD NOT BE
APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO COMMENT. BOTH SIDES FACE GREAT DIFFICULTIES, BUT I DON'T
KNOW WHERE THEY COME FROM. I HOPE THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
9. SEOUL OLYMPICS: "THIS
WILL TAKE PLACE FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, SO WE ARE NOT EXAMINING THIS ISSUE
YET."
10. PARTY PLENUM: THE PLENUM WILL TAKE PLACE IN OCTOBER. THE MAIN THEME
WILL BE ECONOMIC REFORMS. "WE WILL NOT TOUCH ON PERSONNEL MATTERS."
THEREFORE FOREIGN MINISTER WU WILL CONTINUE AS FOREIGN MINISTER FOR THE TIME
BEING. (COMMENT: WU HAS TOLD THE JAPANESE HE WILL ACCOMPANY PRESIDENT LI
XIANNIAN TO SPAIN, PORTUGAL, AND MALTA IN NOVEMBER. END COMMENT.) HU ALSO SAID
THAT DURING THIS OCTOBER PLENUM "WE WILL DECIDE TO
HOLD THE NEXT NATIONAL PARTY CONGRESS' (QUAN GUO DA HUI) . (COMMENT: THE
JAPANESE ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE HOW TO INTERPRET THIS RATHER CRYPTIC STATEMENT.
THEY WONDER WHETHER IT MAY BE A REFERENCE TO THE POSSIBLE CONVENING OF AN
EXTRAORDINARY PARTY CONGRESS, AS IT IS STILL TOO EARLY TO PLAN FOR THE NEXT
REGULAR PARTY CONGRESS. END COMMENT) .
11. TIBET: IF THE DALAI LAMA
WANTS TO COME BACK TO CHINA, CHINA WILL WELCOME HIM. IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO COME BACK, THAT'S FINE
ALSO. "THERE'S NO HURRY." WE HAVE GIVEN TIBET AUTONOMY, BUT
DURING THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION SOME COMRADES HAMPERED THE AUTONOMY OF TIBET BY
FOLLOWING A LEFTIST COURSE. BUT NOW WE HAVE CORRECTED THE WRONG POLICY AND WE
SHOULD NOT REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES. I MET ONCE WITH
THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE DALAI LAMA. I TOLD THEM THAT THE DALAI LAMA WOULD
NOT BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO TIBET IF HE RETURNED TO CHINA. IF HE WANTS TO COME TO
CHINA, HE SHOULD STAY IN BEIJING. HIS WAY OF GOVERNING TIBET IS NOT APPROPRIATE
TO THE PRESENT CHINESE SITUATION, OR TO THE PRESENT SITUATION IN TIBET. IF HE
RETURNS, HE CAN ONLY HAVE THE STATUS OF A RELIGIOUS PERSON, BUT HE "WILL
REMAIN IN THE HISTORY OF TIBET." HIS STATUS WILL BE THE SAME AS THAT OF
THE PANCHEN LAMA. ORIGINALLY THE DALAI LAMA'S STATUS WAS HIGHER THAN THE
PANCHEN LAMA'S, BUT SINCE THE DALAI LAMA LEFT CHINA IN 1959, HE IS NO LONGER
FAMILIAR WITH THE SITUATION HERE. MOREOVER, HE HAS SAID MANY INAPPROPRIATE
THINGS IN THIRD COUNTRIES, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION AS WELL.
HU NOTED FOR HIS GUESTS THAT IN SEPTEMBER 1985, CHINA WOULD CELEBRATE THE 30TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE TIBET AUTONOMOUS REGION. MANY IMPORTANT
PERSONAGES FROM THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT WILL PARTICIPATE IN THIS CELEBRATION.
12. PERSONNEL CHANGES: IN A
SEPARATE CONVERSATION WITH EMBASSY INTERNALISTS, ANOTHER JAPANESE EMBOFF GAVE A
MORE DETAILED PRESENTATION ON PERSONNEL CHANGES. HE SAID THAT HU TOLD THE
JAPANESE OURNALIST THAT CHINA HAS A POLICY OF PROMOTING YOUNGER PEOPLE IN
GOVERNMENT. DURING THE AUTUMN, THERE WILL BE CHANGES IN CENTRAL ORGANIZATIONS
AND AMONG THE LEADERSHIP IN THE PROVINCES. THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LEAVE THEIR
JOBS DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE POLITICAL TROUBLES, BUT THAT THEY ARE TOO OLD. HU
WENT ON TO SAY THAT THERE WILL BE CHANGES AMONG THE VICE-MINITERS IN THE
FOREIGN MINISTRY: THREE VICE- MINISTERS WOULD BE CHANGED -- HAN XU, GONG DAFEI,
AND WEN YEZHAN. THEY WOULD BE REPLACED BY THREE ASSISTANT MINISTERS -- LIU SHUQING
WOULD TAKE GONG DAFEI'S POSITION, ZHOU NAN WOULD TAKE AN UNSPECIFIED SLOT (WE ASSUME
IT WOULD BE WEN'S), AND ZHU QIZHEN WOULD TAKE HAN XU'S POISTION AS THE SENIOR
PERSON HANDLING NORTH AMERICAN AFFAIRS. GONG DAFEI WILL RETIRE, HAN XU WILL
BECOME AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES, AND WEN YEZHAN'S FUTURE WAS NOT
SPECIFIED. (COMMENT: AFTER THE MEETING,
THE JAPANESE SOUGHT MFA CONFIRMATION, AND WERE TOLD THAT HU'S STATEMENTS "WERE
NOT CORRECT", BUT THEY DID CONFIRM THAT GONG DAFEI WOULD BE RETIRING. EMBASSY
ASSUMES THAT MFA HAS BEEN DISINGENUOUS - BUT TECHNICALLY CORRECT - ON GROUNDS
THAT THESE DECISIONS HAVE NOT YET BEEN OFFICIALLY PROMULGATED.
THE JAPANESE DCM WAS TOLD BY LIU DURING HIS MEETING THAT HE WOULD
"NOT BE GOING ANYWHERE," A REFERENCE TO THE RUMORS ABOUT POSSIBLE
ASSIGNMENT TO MOSCOW. END COMMENT.)
HUMMEL
出处：U.S. Department of State
Case No. F-2010-04412 Doc No. C17629203， 解密日期 08/20/2012
_______________
O 060904Z SEP 84
FM AMEMBASSY TOKYO
TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 1331
SUBJECT: HU BAO YANG INTERVIEW
WITH JAPANESE NEWSPAPER OWNER
1. PRC PARTY GENERAL SECRETARY HU BAO YANG GAVE AN EXCLUSIVE NINETY-MINUTE INTERVIEW TO THE PRESIDENT
OF ONE OF JAPAN'S LARGEST NEWSPAPERS ON SEPT. 5. FULL TEXT OF THE INTERVIEW WILL BE POUCHED TO
ADDRESSEE POSTS. COMMENTS THAT MAY BE OF PARTICULAR INTEREST INCLUDE THOSE ON
THE UPCOMING CENTRAL COMMITTEE MEETING, THE PRC-UK HONG KONG NEGOTIATIONS, TENSIONS
ON THE KOREAN PENINSULA AND GENERAL COMMENTS ON PRC-USSR AND PRC-JAPAN RELATIONS.
THE INTERVIEW WITH YOMIURI SHIMBUN PRESIDENT KOBAYASHI
APPEARED IN THE SEPT. 6 PRESS HERE.
2 . FUTURE CHINESE PARTY CONFERENCES.
PERSONNEL MATTERS WOULD NOT BE ON THE AGENDA OF THE THIRD PLENARY
SESSION OF THE CCP CENTRAL COMMITTEE, INSTEAD AGENDA ITEMS WOULD BE ECONOMIC
REFORM AND WHETHER OR NOT TO HOLD THE PARTY'S 13TH NATIONAL CONGRESS NEXT YEAR.
THE PLENARY SESSION MEETING WOULD BE HELD THIS OCTOBER, HU SAID. ON POSSIBLE PERSONNEL
RESHUFFLES IN THE STATE COUNCIL, HU STATED FOREIGN MINISTER WU WOULD STAY ON
THE JOB AS WOULD VICE MINISTERS YAO GUANG AND QIAN QISHEN. ZHOU NAN, LIU
SHUQING AND ZHU QICHEN HAD RECENTLY BEEN APPOINTED VICE MINISTERS.
3. HONG KONG. TWENTY-TWO ROUNDS
OF NEGOTIATIONS HAD BEEN HELD SO FAR, AND FOREIGN SECRETARY HOWE DID GOOD WORK
DURING HIS VISIT IN JULY. HE SETTLED A "CERTAIN PROBLEM" WHICH HAD
BEEN VIEWED AS DIFFICULT AT THE TIME, AND SINCE THEN THE TEMPO OF THE TALKS HAD
STEPPED UP. PRESUMING NOTHING UNEXPECTED
OCCURS, PROSPECTS FOR INITIALLING AN AGREEMENT BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER WERE GOOD.
"SOME SAY THE SINO-BRITISH NEGOTIATIONS
ARE PROVIDING A MODEL FOR THE SETTLEMENT OF DISPUTES BETWEEN NATIONS.
"
4. SINO-SOVIET RELATIONS. ASKED
ABOUT THE REPORTED MEETING OF CHINESE AND SOVIET FOREIGN MINISTERS AT THE UNGA
AND THE POSTPONED VISIT OF SOVIET FIRST DEPUTY PREMIER ARKHIPOV, HU REPLIED THAT THE TWO FOREIGN MINISTERS WOULD MEET AND THAT
CHINA WISHED TO HOLD TALKS WITH THE USSR AT THE UNGA. HE DID NOT EXPECT MANY RESULTS, HOWEVER, NOR
DID HE KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH REGARD TO ARKIPOV'S VISIT.
5. KOREA. FROM CHINA'S POINT OF VIEW THERE HAD BEEN SOME EASING OF
TENSION ON THE KOREAN PENINSULA SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR "THROUGH
THE EFFORTS OF VARIOUS CIRCLES," BUT REGRETTABLY NO BIG PROGRESS. CHINA
COMPLETELY SUPPORTED THE TRIPARTITE TALKS (NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA AND THE US)
PROPOSED BY KIM IL SUNG AND A PEACEFUL AND AUTONOMOUS UNIFICATION OF KOREA. HU
THEN ADDED THAT CHINESE, US AND JAPANESE EFFORTS TO PROMOTE PEACE IN KOREA
WOULD BE HELPFUL.
6. PRC-JAPAN TIES. HU WAS CONVINCED THAT CHINA-JAPAN RELATIONS
WOULD CONTINUE TO IMPROVE BUT NOTED THAT NOT EVERYBODY SHARED HIS CONVICTION.
7. ON OTHER ISSUES HU SAID THE
DALAI LAMA WOULD BE WELCOMED BACK TO TIBET AS LONG AS HE ACCEPTED A SIMILAR
STATUS TO THAT OF THE PANCHEN LAMA. HE DECLINED TO COMMENT ON THE HONECKER
VISIT TO THE FRG, BUT SURMISED IT RAN INTO "SOME DIFFICULTY" AND
HOPED THAT THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY BE SETTLED.
MANSFIELD
出处：U.S. Department of State
Case No. F-2010-04412 Doc No. C17629183 解密日期08/20/2012
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