2014年10月1日星期三

1966.10.1英国驻挪威大使报告与中国外交官就文化大革命问题的交谈



按:红色标记系录入者所加。

英国驻挪威大使Scott9月30日出席中国驻挪威使馆举行的中国国庆招待会,他借此机会向中国大使冯于九和参赞提出一些关于文革的问题,包括:文革的目标是谁?资产阶级在中国不是已经消灭了吗?为何在中国读书的留学生全部被命令回国?这尤其给那些到中国进修一年制工程项目的非洲留学生带来很大的麻烦。

当Scott问到大学生是否要学工学农时,参赞就此问题和翻译用中文交流了一会,然后回答说“没想到一个朋友能问出这么失礼的问题” 。Scott很无辜的说,“这是很真诚的问题。这难道不是你们官方声称的革命目标吗?”中国外交官彼此又交流一会才说确实如此。
 
当Scott说为何年轻的红卫兵那么暴力,不文明?这种现象在刚果卢蒙巴政权出现过,为何在有悠久文明的中国也能出现? 中国外交官彼此交流后,说“非常感谢你对中国人民的善意评价。”

稍后在德国大使举行的离任宴会上,英国大使与苏联大使就中国问题交谈,他俩都注意到原来中国使馆的很多装饰画都没了,只有两幅画剩下是关于毛泽东的。英国大使说中国内乱对苏联改善与美国关系有利,因为这样中国就不能再像以前那样大力支持北越,于是北越被迫与美国谈判,苏联大使说难讲。英国大使还说,不客气的说中国现在就像斯大林时期,苏联大使笑着说可能是吧。


RESTRICED                                                          BRITISH EMBASSY

1691/2/66G                                                                    OSLO
                                                                               1 October, 1966

Dear Davidson,
In view of the ferment now going on in China, I imagine that any snippets of news about Chinese attitudes may be of interest to someone. It is therefore perhaps worth recording my conversation yesterday in the Chinese Embassy, where I attended their National Day celebrations. The Ambassador (who cannot trust himself to speak English), his wife and interpreter received us at the door and as there was a pause in the arrival of guests I took the opportunity to ask him what was now going on in China and what was the significance of the activities of the Red Guards. With a broad smile he replied that everything was normal and the stories I had heard were British and American propaganda. I said that this was not so; and that the world's press was fully aware of the extraordinary behaviour of these Red Guards. What was the explanation of their destructiveness, e.g. to churches and graveyards and the general rampage which they were conducting? It was very reminiscent of the "jeunesse congolaise" of Lumumba's time when bands of young thugs regarded themselves free to do what they liked. We did not expect to hear of this coming out of China. He answered that this was all part of the counter revolution. (The revolution against whom, I enquired?) Against the bourgeoisie. I said that the bourgeoisie had already been eliminated years ago, to which he said that the class had been abolished but that individuals remained. At this point other guests started arriving and I had to move on into the body of the party where I got hold of a Counsellor in the Embassy, to continue the discussion. He in turn did not know English very well and called up another young Chinese who spoke excellent English.

2. Our conversation went as follows:-
"What were the Red Guards engaged in doing?"
"They were carrying out the purposes of the counter revolution."
"Why had all foreign students been expelled from the universities in China and sent back home? Was the University of Peking closed?"
"No. The University was not closed but the staff had no time to teach foreign students because they were carrying out the counter revolution and taking part in demonstrations. "
"If the University was not closed, were classes still being held for Chinese students?
"No. The West might say that the University was closed, but in fact it was carrying on.
"Were the staff and students now engaged part time in teaching work, part time working on the land and part time working in factories?"

This produced three or four exchanges of Chinese between the Counsellor and the interpreter and finally the reply:

"This is a rude question which is not expected from a friend."
"It is not at all a rude question, but a genuine enquiry. I have read that this is indeed the objective of the present counter revolution; namely that those engaged in teaching should also do part time factory work and part time agricultural work. Is this true or is it not?"

This again produced several exchanges of view in Chinese following which the answer was given:
"Yes it is true."
"Was it not hard on, say, the African student who was within one year of getting an engineering qualification that he should be sent back home without it?"
"He could return when this was all over."
"Why were the Red Guards behaving in this uncivilised way, which one had seen in parts of Africa but did not expect from an old and cultured nation like the Chinese?"

Again this produced a to-ing and fro-ing in Chinese and the answer:
"We are grateful for your kind remarks about the Chinese people."

3.   As I wanted to look in on a farewell party which the German Ambassador was giving before his departure, I left. At the German party I met the Russian Ambassador who said that he had also been at the Chinese reception. I asked him whether he had discussed the present state of affairs with the Chinese ambassador; he replied that he had and that the Chinese Ambassador had said to him that "you should know what this is about; you went through this yourselves". The Russian said that he had only asked one question. '"Where have all the pictures gone?" which used to adorn the Chinese Embassy. The Chinese had given him no answer to this one. There were in fact only two pictures of Mao and texts of his writings hanging on the walls. I said to the Russian, "But it was not of course so long ago since Russian embassies exhibited similar changes as occasion arose", and that if he would permit me to say so, it looked as if China was going through a severe Stalinist phase. With a broad smile he said that perhaps that was so. The Russian went on to say that before Vietnam, Russia had been getting very close to America but that had all now been spoiled. I replied that I felt sure these close relations would be re-established once Vietnam was out of the way and that in my view, just possibly there would be one good result of the present troubles in China - namely that China would have to become so preoccupied with its own internal affairs that it would find itself unable to continue giving the massive support to North Vietnam which it had hitherto been doing. In that case, "North Vietnam would be forced to come to terms with the Americans. The next six months would show if this was so; and if it was so I hoped that Russia would do everything in its power to assist the process. The Russian Ambassador replied that this might happen but things were very difficult indeed for Russia over Vietnam.

4. I am sending copies of this letter to Peking, Moscow and Washington.

Yours ever
Ian Scott
(I. D. Scott)

To : A. E. Davidson, Esq.,
Central Department,
Foreign Office.






出处:英国外交部档案FO/371/186982


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